By Rens Gehling
Between the Statements (Warehouse & Logistics) – Episode 7
Conversation with Rens Gehling (Eurosort)
Host: Roel van Gils
Logistics automation and sorting solutions – How Eurosort responds to e-commerce growth and higher volumes
In this episode of Warehouse & Logistics, moderator Roel van Gils speaks with Rens Gehling, commercial director at Eurosort, about the crucial role of sorting solutions within modern logistics. From the impact of e-commerce and changing order patterns to smart automation and scalable systems: discover when automation truly becomes necessary and how companies can work more efficiently with fewer errors and lower costs. An in-depth conversation about innovation, market trends, and the future of logistics processes.
[00:00] Introduction of the sorting theme
Roel van Gils: Welcome to a new episode between the propositions of Warehouse & Logistics within EU. Today we dive deeper into the world of logistics and automation. And believe me, that is a lot more interesting than it might sound, because behind almost every package you receive is a smart sorting system. Today at the table with me: Rens from Eurosort. Rens, could you briefly introduce yourself?
Rens Gehling: Yes, I’m Rens Gehling. I’m commercial director at Eurosort.
Roel van Gils: There you go. Welcome again.
Rens Gehling: Thank you.
Roel van Gils: We start strong, as in our podcast, with three propositions. You may answer with yes or no. And after that we will go a bit deeper into the subject. The first proposition: without automation you simply won’t make it anymore as a logistics company in the future.
Rens Gehling: Actually a “yes-no”. Yes, but.
Roel van Gils: Yes, but. Yes or no?
Rens Gehling: For all medium-sized and large companies it is definitely a yes.
Roel van Gils: Well, we’ll come back to that later. Proposition 2: many companies do not always see the different possibilities of automation. One hundred percent yes or no?
Rens Gehling: Yes.
Roel van Gils: Yes. And proposition 3: it is a clear trend that logistics systems must be able to deal with higher volumes and lower quantities per order.
Rens Gehling: Agree.
Roel van Gils: Agree. There you go. Very good. Do you want to come back to those propositions right away or shall we say…
Rens Gehling: Anything goes.
Roel van Gils: Anything goes. Well, let’s just do it right away. Proposition 1: without automation you won’t make it. You were quite clear about that, I think.
[01:32] When automation becomes necessary
Rens Gehling: Yes, well as I see it: if you are a small entrepreneur, and they also start with logistics of course, then it is not necessarily required to immediately invest heavily in automation. You first want to get your business up and running, you want your revenue there first. But if you have any volume, any sales market that returns daily, then you quickly move toward a degree of automation. That can start with a very simple conveyor belt. But as you grow, you will have to invest in automation. Otherwise you simply cannot meet the expectations of the market, the company, or the customer.
Roel van Gils: The second proposition indeed: many companies do not always see the different possibilities of automation.
Rens Gehling: Yes, I think so too. I think many companies I speak with, customers I speak with, know very well how their own process is structured. They are of course the expert in that and have all the knowledge, but they don’t always know what else is happening in the market and what is possible. And in general, every form of automation often requires an adjustment in your current process. So you have to think differently than the process you are currently executing. And on top of that, the logistics market is large, with a lot of supply, a lot of diversity, and not every company can see the forest for the trees anymore.
Roel van Gils: And what would be a tip you could give?
Rens Gehling: A tip is mainly: go into it open-minded. Go look, start the conversation with parties. Don’t come in beforehand with: this is what I need. Because I read that a lot. Just open the conversation. And try not to—at least when we as a company approach a customer, we do a lot of demand-driven and therefore a lot of consultative selling. What do you need? Try to really get to the underlying challenge of the customer and what they need. Not every company does that. They just say: we have this product, and they try to push it. That’s not how we work.
[03:34] Trend toward more orders with fewer items
Roel van Gils: And finally that third proposition, before we really dive deeper into the subject. Logistics systems must be able to deal with higher volumes and lower quantities per order.
Rens Gehling: Yes, one hundred percent. Where traditionally, I’ll call it pre-COVID, a lot of delivery was to stores, to companies, B2B, that has shifted significantly due to COVID toward an online environment where we deliver a lot directly to the end customer, B2C. That means: a store received many items per order. And at the moment, customers only order a few items. You and I order online behind our computers just one, two, or three items max and click buy. That is a very different dynamic in your logistics process. You have to adapt to that. And that fits exactly with your proposition.
Roel van Gils: Yes, thank you Rens so far. But let’s go back to the beginning. You say: we know everything about sorting. From left to right, from large to small. What exactly do you do?
[04:33] What Eurosort actually does
Rens Gehling: Well, Eurosort is a company. We are the expert and specialist in sorting solutions, in the broadest sense of the word. So wherever we can improve the process, we try to tackle it. And that even starts with order picking. That is actually what you initially improve in fulfillment with sorting.
Roel van Gils: With order picking, can you give an example of that?
Rens Gehling: Yes, well suppose: you have a small warehouse. You walk into the warehouse and pick a number of items. You walk back to fulfill an order. Your number of orders increases, then at some point you are doing a lot of walking and picking items from your warehouse. Then it is a logical step to say: you know what, I take a batch, many of the same SKU, the same item, take it with me, place it on a sorting solution and sort it out per customer or company. And then I can create much more throughput and capacity to serve my customers with far less movement in my warehouse. You do that through automation, through a sorting solution.
Roel van Gils: And you say indeed from large to small. What should I think of? Clothing, for example, in terms of size. Can you say something about that?
Rens Gehling: Certainly. We operate in different markets, broadly. That can be a fashion market. Clothing is one of our focus markets. Consumer products, whether that is electronics or books or whatever you randomly buy in a store, to toys. Those can be good markets for us. But post and parcel is also a well-known example. So those markets are broad. If you look at products, that is also broad. We are known for the fact that we also do everything. That also means everything we call non-conveyable. So what is difficult to transport, that can all be handled with our solutions.
Roel van Gils: But also white goods? No, right?
Rens Gehling: Yes, also. Well sorry, white goods not: no large washing machines and refrigerators. No, we don’t focus on that. We are very much on a maximum spectrum. Because if you go to white goods, you quickly move toward pallets and handling. And then you get a different form of automation.
Roel van Gils: So mainly smaller items up to a certain size?
Rens Gehling: Yes. Maybe at the core: what is Eurosort known for? High capacity for especially items on as small a footprint as possible. Because floor space is quite expensive.
[07:02] From what volume sorting becomes interesting
Roel van Gils: And when does a company reach the point where you think: we really need to do something with sorting?
Rens Gehling: What you see is: companies often start with some kind of conveyor belt or a form of sorting. That’s not us yet. So just below us, I’ll call it, the real small entrepreneur. But once you go to three to four thousand units per hour that you want to sort, then we come into the picture very quickly. Up to very large systems. For example, we have a system in the Netherlands that does 150,000 units per hour. Those are serious numbers.
Roel van Gils: Yes, that’s quite a large system. But the core of the story for companies: does it often start with inefficiency?
Rens Gehling: Yes, it often starts… well inefficiency depends on your perspective. Because the customer doesn’t see it as inefficiency yet, but says: I want to take a step, I want to work more efficiently. I want to handle more volume or increase my delivery reliability. Then you get that step toward an automated sorting solution.
Roel van Gils: And then you look at how to approach it smarter?
Rens Gehling: Exactly. So you first start a conversation with a customer. What is your challenge? What does your logistics flow look like? How do goods come in? How should goods go out? What is the volume? What is your order type? What are your products? And based on that, we at Eurosort, with more than five hundred systems installed, already have a lot of reference and experience and try to guide a customer. Look, these are the possibilities. To really have the conversation: what fits you? So we create a customer-specific solution with existing, proven technology.
[08:49] Where sorting appears in the warehouse
Roel van Gils: And you also see sorting appear in different places, right? At inbound goods, for example, with return flows. It can be in multiple positions in a warehouse.
Rens Gehling: Certainly. I think sorting is often known in two positions. That is what we call fulfillment, so order picking, and at dispatch, when I need to sort toward a truck or a van. But it is much broader. It can be at inbound goods. But what we also see a lot now are return flows. We all send packages back. You see many customers who buy multiple shirts and only one fits. Or shoes. And the rest goes back. That is a growing, unfortunately, market. Because it is actually unnecessary, but it happens. There you also get a sorting step. So everywhere you look: okay, more is coming in, I will sort it out. Or back to item level again, that is also possible. So I say: hundreds of thousands of goods come in, but I want them back at SKU level, Stock Keeping Unit, the item type. That can also be done through sorting.
Roel van Gils: Yes, okay. But no warehouse is really the same. How do you approach that?
Rens Gehling: That ties in with what we just said. We really look at the customer. What do you need? What does your flow look like? And also the technology you apply, whether mechanical or software-based, or the control, is different every time.
Roel van Gils: Yes, and also the type of product I assume?
Rens Gehling: Yes, certainly.
[10:31] How a sales and design process works
Roel van Gils: And what does such a process look like?
Rens Gehling: In general it is fairly standard. Solution-based selling. The first part is a lot of inventory and analysis. That takes up most of the time. Then we often say: we have a certain concept. That has a certain performance and a certain price. That’s how you start the conversation with the customer. If it doesn’t fit, then we adjust it. That is a process with multiple iterations, until we eventually arrive at a solution where the customer says: this now fits well with my wishes and aligns with my logistics business. And then you make it more concrete in detail. And eventually you of course move to a purchase by a customer. And I do find it important to emphasize this. I think it is very important that when you reach that point you are realistic: okay, now you are actually entering into a marriage. We are now together for the next ten or twenty years. You won’t get rid of us anymore. That’s a nice way to phrase it, but I find it important. We are truly a partner and not the supplier. So it’s not: you buy, you deliver, and you’re gone. No, in logistics, especially with sorting solutions, you are talking about strategic investments at the heart of an operation. That simply has to keep running at all times. Then you must be able to rely on each other. You must trust the reliability, the quality, and the service that a party delivers, because that is essential.
Roel van Gils: Are you really distinctive in that or is this characteristic for this sector, for this market?
Rens Gehling: I think we are distinctive in this, because we really do take an extra step. And I don’t mean that in the sense that we offer extra services, but for us the relationship and the reputation are more important than always the profit on a project. We have a statement: every customer is a reference customer. That must be the case. And I can sincerely say that every customer of ours that you would call would speak positively about us. And actually: the proof is in the pudding. Existing customers keep coming back and buying more. And that is the proof for me that we deliver well. I don’t think that applies to every company.
[12:47] Why automation pays off
Roel van Gils: When does automation really become interesting?
Rens Gehling: What you mainly see is: labor is still a major limiting factor. That is the number one driver for automation. You also see peak loads increasing. That’s ultimately when you make your money. Around holidays and such, you have to be able to deliver. That doesn’t always work with people, so then you move toward automation. And a piece of reliability: do you deliver on time, but do you also deliver the correct goods? The more automated you operate, the less humans can make mistakes in a process, the more reliable it becomes.
Roel van Gils: Yes, that’s always a proposition from many companies: they look at the investment, but automation actually always generates money. Can you explain that further?
Rens Gehling: Yes, I do think so. But my heart has been in automation my whole life. I don’t see it as something that brings costs. I see it as an investment that ultimately yields more, allowing you to grow as a company. So if you truly believe in your company, see that it is successful, then I wouldn’t wait with automation. And at what scale do you step in? That very much depends on your projections. If you have fairly aggressive growth projections, then I would go straight for reasonably large-scale automation. And within that we also simply have multiple levels. So the core is often the same, but around it you can automate much more, even within a sorting solution itself. Then we simply give the customer options. We say: okay, this is possible or this is not. To give a concrete example: I had a customer meeting yesterday. That is indeed sorting in fashion. So some shoes, a lot of clothing and some accessories. There is a sorting solution involved. We visited a reference customer. They say: yes, it is perfect. It is exactly what fits them. But do you also want to feed empty boxes? Do you want to discharge the complete orders? Do you want us to pack them? Do you want us to label them with shipping labels? Do you then want to sort them again by delivery van or not? Those are choices. You don’t have to automate that, but you can. And depending on where a customer is in the process, I would advise: take it into account.
Roel van Gils: And can you always scale that up later? Or is that difficult?
Rens Gehling: Certainly. Scaling up is no problem. Where floor space is often the limiting factor for many customers. That happens to be a major strength of ours. We truly have high capacity for a smaller footprint.
Roel van Gils: Yes, and how many items per hour should I think of before such a sorting solution becomes interesting?
Rens Gehling: A small sorting setup with a conveyor belt with a few outputs already starts from a thousand per hour. That is simply manual. But we become interesting from around four to five thousand. Then you are really talking about loop sorters.
[15:43] Adapting to customer needs and market trends
Roel van Gils: How do you adapt your solutions to customer needs and market trends?
Rens Gehling: On the one hand, by having a broad portfolio, so that you can offer the right solution to a customer. And at the same time, by driving very strong product development. So we look very closely at market trends. We look very closely at what is happening within our customers. And we start conversations about those challenges. We take that back with us and then come up with new innovations that actually give a customer a competitive advantage. Maybe we’ll talk in a moment about what we launched last week at LogiMAT. The e-sort is a perfect example of that.
Roel van Gils: You’re already making the connection yourself. Perhaps you can dive into that a bit further.
[16:31] Introduction of e-sort
Rens Gehling: Yes, we launched the e-sort last week at LogiMAT, based on a year of development and customer feedback and gathering market information. Essentially, it is a solution specifically aimed at e-commerce and omni-channel. What do we do? We have multiplied every sorter outlet by a factor of eight to sixteen. And that has to do with what we said right at the beginning, that third proposition. We see that everything is increasingly moving toward e-commerce, meaning many more orders but far fewer items per order. That means that your material handling equipment needs to be able to create many more locations. But you don’t want to do that if it takes up a lot of floor space. So how do you create more locations in a small footprint? Well, we have developed a solution for that. And it is already a huge success.
Roel van Gils: But is that a completely new solution or a further development? Or an additional variant, so to speak, based on your existing system?
Rens Gehling: Yes, it is a further development, but at the same time essentially an additional option on our system. We call it something like a smart roll. So it is basically a kind of automated put wall. We sort into the put wall. But with that you have… We have the traditional, we call it batch sortation. So basically it is just a rectangular box that can achieve a certain capacity. Many suppliers offer those in different sizes. That has limitations, both in floor space and in capacity and in product handling. We have essentially scaled up our loop sorters with technology so that we can do this at large volume, very effectively, very cost-efficiently. And we can also combine it with traditional sorting solutions. So that means you are not just choosing one solution for the problem: I want more outputs or I want to do e-com. No, we can combine it with your existing business. In that way you create a total solution for a customer and align much better with the market.
Roel van Gils: And can customers who already have an existing system of yours also upgrade to that eSort?
Rens Gehling: Yes, they can. We are currently looking into that with several customers in the Netherlands.
Roel van Gils: Okay, that makes it even more special or interesting.
Rens Gehling: Yes. And what I especially like is that what we have developed really fits within the DNA of Eurosort. It is not revolutionary in the sense that we have invented a completely new technology in nuts and bolts. No, the concept and how we execute it is new and revolutionary. It did not exist before. It is truly unique. Yes, we are really the first. And that is because, well, I think many companies look at each other and then come up with a similar solution that is just a bit smarter or better or cheaper. And we say: no, we really look at the market. What solution does the market need? What will the demand be over the next five years? And we act on that. Of course you look at the competition, but without making a copycat of what already exists.
Roel van Gils: E-commerce has of course existed for quite a while, and for a long time already. Why are you only now coming with this system?
Rens Gehling: Essentially the answer is: we have grown strongly over the past five years and have had tremendous success. And the need to bring many new products was not that urgent yet. There was simply a lot of demand, especially due to COVID. Many large systems, many roll-outs were done. And that was the focus. So the focus was very operationally driven. And now you see that this focus is also shifting more toward strategic insight. That is actually also a part I am working on myself.
[20:19] Reactions at LogiMAT
Roel van Gils: And what were the reactions at LogiMAT, to the eSort?
Rens Gehling: Overwhelming. I think we have never had such a good trade fair, never had so many leads, never had so much traffic. We were non-stop busy, literally. Even on the last day, and that was also quite unique, until the very end.
Roel van Gils: Even when you are already packing up or something like that, but…
Rens Gehling: Yes, well, you have to imagine: we are not the biggest company, we are not a large integrator doing billions. But my entire team was continuously in conversation, both with existing customers and also many new customers who suddenly recognize us. Not as companies saying: yes, but I have that problem. I come here and I recognize myself in this. And you start the conversation. And people are really very enthusiastic.
Roel van Gils: I see. Those people who are interested as a company: how long does it take before that machine, that sorting system, is actually installed with them? What is the lead time?
Rens Gehling: Yes, that really depends on the size of the project of course. I would say: somewhere between six and ten months is an average. It can sometimes be faster, but it can also take a bit longer if you have a mega project.
[21:34] Market trends and the role of robots
Roel van Gils: Because of all the busyness at LogiMAT, you probably didn’t get the chance to walk around the trade fair, I can imagine. But you might still have a good overview of the trends that are playing in the market. Do you have an idea of that? Can you tell us something about it?
Rens Gehling: What I do see—although I did walk around a bit—is mainly a strong trend toward AMR, all autonomous mobile robots that move around. I think there is also a real limit to that. Because you can clearly see—and this might be interesting to share from my perspective—the so-called golden standards. So that was a bit AMR, black box: okay, I put something in and everything runs automatically, great. Or I have storage, an AS/RS, automatic storage and retrieval. In the past, AutoStore and shuttle systems were big names. I think that is somewhat in decline now.
Roel van Gils: Really?
Rens Gehling: Yes, because what we now see in our solutions is that there is a certain limit to that: in capacity, in floor space, and also in investment. And what we show with our solution is that if you combine our solution with those systems—so a sorting solution combined with an AutoStore, but fully automatically integrated—you get more throughput, meaning more capacity, a smaller footprint, and also a lower investment. So it cuts both ways. And that connects to what we said at the very beginning with those propositions: stay open-minded. Don’t think: okay, this is a black box and it solves everything, so I just scale that black box as much as I need. Because if you can really integrate and combine different systems, you get a much more competitive solution. And we are now slowly seeing that come back again. But that does mean that we as a supplier have to bring the customer and the market along in what is actually possible.
[23:31] Collaboration with other suppliers
Roel van Gils: But you also have to collaborate with other suppliers of other systems, right?
Rens Gehling: Certainly, certainly.
Roel van Gils: That already happens?
Rens Gehling: Yes. Well, we supply different types of customers. So it can be an end customer, just an entrepreneur, large or small, it doesn’t matter, or an integrator. We deliver turnkey systems ourselves, as we call it. But we can also do a partial delivery to a larger integrator that incorporates our solution into a bigger whole. And what we often see is that those, we call them solution design teams—whether it’s a third-party logistics provider or an integrator—we try to involve them, to train them in what we do. And also consultants: be aware of what is all possible.
Roel van Gils: On your website it says in big letters: we believe in simplicity. What exactly do you mean by that? It can be interpreted in multiple ways.
[24:29] Why simplicity is central
Rens Gehling: In essence, it means that we believe in avoiding unnecessary complexity. “Keep it simple,” you could also say. We try to deliver a solution to a customer that is of high quality—or even very high quality—reliable, efficient, without applying too much unnecessary technology, sensors, and software, which ultimately only creates risk in the long term for maintenance and reliability.
Roel van Gils: Today as well, you said: we are basically entering into a marriage.
Rens Gehling: Yes, absolutely. And our machines are also really known for their low maintenance costs and a very good total cost of ownership. Maybe a small example that I’d like to give, which is quite nice. We had an American customer over last year, a big name, well known to most people in Europe as well.
Roel van Gils: Go on, tell us.
Rens Gehling: Well, I’ll leave the name out for now, but we already supply quite a lot of machines to them. We also have a branch in the US as part of Eurosort. And they come to us, they go to customers, they see our factories. And they say: “Okay, but where is A, B, C?” And the answer is: it’s not there. That complexity, those sensors—we don’t need them. What we deliver is often fully focused on mechanical sorting, but with very smart control and a smart concept. “Yes, but then I barely have to maintain anything,” the customer says. Yes, that’s correct. But it still delivers the capacity you are looking for, and it doesn’t cost the earth to…
Maybe to clarify: we all know, for example, a crossbelt. That is the gold standard in the market. It has high capacity, high performance, and many capabilities, but it also comes with a certain price tag to purchase. It also has significant maintenance costs, just in terms of energy and technicians.
Well, we have a crosstray. What is a crosstray? It is basically a mechanised version of a crossbelt, so not with drives but purely with a sliding guide—mechanically driven, but fully enclosed. So with that, we can solve the disadvantages of a crossbelt, because we can handle all items, all non-conveyables, but at the same time for a fraction of the price and a fraction of the maintenance costs. And that makes it a very popular solution for many of those customers.
Roel van Gils: Does energy consumption also go down? Or practically nothing even?
Rens Gehling: I would say that depends in relation to other solutions.
[27:16] Dutch technology and competition from China
Roel van Gils: And you are also a Dutch company. Are the products also produced in the Netherlands?
Rens Gehling: Yes, we are Dutch. Everything we deploy worldwide—the core of the technology comes from the Netherlands, from our headquarters near Weesp, near Amsterdam. But you do see that, for example, conveyor belts, we buy those from real specialists. I mean, we are not going to develop a packaging machine ourselves.
Roel van Gils: Yes, you probably don’t want to recoup that investment either.
Rens Gehling: No, exactly. So the sorting technology, that core, comes from the Netherlands and is developed in the Netherlands. Everything around it—conveyor belts, labellers—we source through partners.
Roel van Gils: Do you experience competition from companies in China?
Rens Gehling: Yes and no. I think China in general puts quite a bit of pressure on the industry. It doesn’t matter who you speak to. Whether it’s automotive, which is well known, or logistics. You see many suppliers. Every year a new one appears, but I also clearly see that there are limits to what they offer.
Roel van Gils: But they often go below price, for example?
Rens Gehling: Yes, well, they have volume, which creates price pressure, but they also have a lot of support, state support, and they want to penetrate the market, so they often enter at cost price or very low, buying projects. But I do notice now, after five, six years of being active in that market, their business model is changing. Suddenly they want different requirements and wishes. And customers also notice: then the service side comes into play, reliability. Yes, who do I actually reach?
Roel van Gils: So that is not there, or at least…?
Rens Gehling: Yes, often difficult and much harder. And then I say as Eurosort: I stand behind my product. We are always there, one way or another. We make sure the system keeps running, not just for a few years, but for 10, 20 years.
[29:18] 25 years of Eurosort and looking ahead
Roel van Gils: Finally, you are celebrating 25 years this year, I believe. Tell us, what can we expect? Do you have an anniversary edition? We’re hanging…
Rens Gehling: We’re not really making a big deal out of it yet, but yes, we do exist for 25 years. We’ve really grown from a small company, of course starting in a garage like most small businesses do, into a truly established player. A leading company in the sorting world, with a broad portfolio. So what does those 25 years mean for us? It’s a milestone. A recognition of where we stand now. And also a nice hook to look toward the future. Where will we be in ten years?
Roel van Gils: Well, in those ten years…
Roel van Gils: Give us a little hint.
Rens Gehling: What we want to do is expand further within the sorting domain. We want to offer total solutions for sorting. That means we are not going to sell or advise on warehouse racking systems—that’s not our expertise, we are not manufacturers of that. But everything after that point, once you look at fulfilling orders all the way to getting them into a truck or delivery van—that entire domain is where we want to provide solutions. Both as a full package for an end customer, and as partial solutions for other integrators or parties that want to work with us.
Roel van Gils: So you are going broader, perhaps?
Rens Gehling: Yes, relieving the customer. And what we haven’t really talked about yet, but what you do clearly see, is that labour is a driving factor, and cost of course.
Roel van Gils: Yes, of course.
Rens Gehling: I also truly believe in hyper automation, what we call dark factories, or truly human-light environments. Really: something goes in and something comes out, and there are almost no people involved. We have a site like that; recently we launched a video of it in Poland. So then you have a complete sorting solution, fully automated—loading, sorting, and processing.
[31:17] Fully automated sorting solution in Poland
Roel van Gils: No human involved?
Rens Gehling: No, only for control? Yes, control or just those exceptions that you do want to handle, but where the barcode is not correct. You still keep that. So it is occasional. If you extend that trajectory further, in principle I believe you can fully automate it. And I also believe that we at Eurosort, that we will be able to offer solutions in the future that will make that possible for you.
Roel van Gils: But that company, going back to that company in Poland, is quite interesting. Did you do that entirely yourselves, so to speak? Did you fully deliver that project, the sorting part?
Rens Gehling: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, but that is also a combination of… yes, yes, yes, yes exactly. Of course there is a part of storage and order picking, and in this case after our part… We sorted into a box or a tote. That is automatically closed and processed. Well, that was where our scope ended. And after that there is a further handling part by that company. We did not do that. But in other cases we can. So it is part of our portfolio.
Roel van Gils: Was this a pilot project or is it already…
Rens Gehling: No, this has been running for five years now.
Roel van Gils: Oh, it has already been running for five years?
Rens Gehling: Yes. We have many systems installed, but before you are allowed to publish something—because it is often unique and competitive—the customer also keeps it close to their chest and doesn’t want to make competitors aware that this is already possible and exists.
Roel van Gils: Yes, because are there already new requests for it?
Rens Gehling: Yes, definitely. There is a lot of demand for it with us.
Roel van Gils: And then you’re not allowed to say anything about it?
Rens Gehling: No, not always. And it is also something we work on with customers. I say: especially now with all the AI tools and exposure and SEO, SEA, GEO… how can we make these use cases more visible and public? But yes, that is often not possible. Many parties do not want to allow that. They say: we have these systems in place, this is unique, we have a competitive advantage with it, so keep it confidential.
[33:20] The role of AI within Eurosort
Roel van Gils: And if we look a bit further into the future in terms of developments, you mentioned AI for example, you are probably also investing in that?
Rens Gehling: Yes, AI as well, but I see AI in two ways. I see it as a driver for our organisation to work more efficiently. Just like you could record this and transcribe it with AI.
Roel van Gils: In fact, we are doing that.
Rens Gehling: That doesn’t surprise me. That is a way of creating efficiency. We are also doing that extensively within our organisation. We have quite a few projects running in that area. I also see it as a second enabler, where we can generate problem-solving approaches through knowledge. So you really create a database within your own environment, within your company, where you let AI come up with solutions that expand your products, things you might not have thought of yourself. We have a few examples of that, where you think: oh wait, that’s actually really interesting what comes out here. And it’s something you could have thought of yourself, could have created yourself, but not within the timeframe in which AI brings you to that conclusion and substantiates it.
[34:37] Closing tip for listeners
Roel van Gils: Interesting. Yes indeed. Finally, what would you like to give our listeners as a tip at the end of the conversation?
Rens Gehling: Nice question. As a tip I would say: keep looking ahead. Keep looking at possibilities. Don’t limit yourself to what you are currently doing, and also don’t just think in a funnel like: okay, I need this.
Roel van Gils: That is quite difficult of course, right?
Rens Gehling: Yes, I think it is very difficult to oversee the entire market. But be open-minded and just start the conversation. And if you also feel like: well, this is not it, then stop there and continue looking further. I truly believe that, especially in logistics, every pot has a lid. There is so much supply. You can definitely find what you need, without a doubt.
Roel van Gils: Yes, that was clear again at LogiMAT, for example.
Rens Gehling: Yes, one hundred percent.
Roel van Gils: Okay Rens, thank you for this conversation.
Rens Gehling: My pleasure.
Roel van Gils: And listeners, thank you for listening. And see you at the next podcast.
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